hello hello and welcome to the audio visual cultures podcast I am all up there and I'm really pleased to be joined this time by writer ko Paris he is very kind they going to talk about his latest back suffering in silence August fifteenth two thousand three and it's available now for pre order and that's going to say come on on the fifteenth of August this year in twenty twenty I can activate killer piecing matchmaker dot FM this is a website that helps podcast makers and guests find going to bite each other and to connect so huge thanks to them thanks as well to our membership Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures for your continued support if you'd like to make a one off donation you can also do that at buy me a coffee dot com forward slash PDA prior so hello if you're joining us on Instagram life it's my first attempt at recording this way it'll be really great to have your questions and comments as well said pleased to join in we're likely going to talk about men's mental health and issues very brief minutes possibly touching on addiction domestic abuse and suicides Sir things that come up with that and killer to writing so we'll see how we go but just so you're aware those are things we might touch on if you follow Calif on his Instagram is he the he's got a really positive I lack so it won't be hosting a great event will be hopefully really positive look at all of these things just a reminder that all of our episodes are available on U. shape so if you search for my channel and that's the P. A. Blair handled that I use for all of the rest of my work on the podcast you'll be able to find audio visual cultures there all of our back catalog and the most recent episodes of the podcast can also be sure James on just about any podcast platforms including Spotify Google play I chains sign clients and any that does feed into as well and addition T. AV cultures paused on Instagram or on Facebook and Twitter as a feat cultures the website is audio visual cultures DOT wordpress dot com and you can email audio visual cultures at G. mail dot com I'm always looking for guests to please get in touch if you have something that you're working on or ideas that you're working three or just something that you really love and you're burning to talk about it it's something to do with culture you would be really great to hear from me I've been trying to you to this project to try and make it the slippages across different media so I'm really excited to talk to kill it because I really wanted to have an author of fiction and a novelist on for quite awhile so he's not a first time customer he's the first to say yes thank you Caleb and I'm really looking forward to hearing more about his experiences and saying that's the first time doing this on Instagram life just waiting for Caleb to join in on that okay Hey how's it going I'm good how are you doing well hi is it are you in Connecticut is that right yeah I'm in Connecticut the Enfield area right now we just turned three o'clock right now so it's a pretty sunny day overall the lady at eight o'clock in the evening where I am and you cancel hi keeping keep paying lately I've been pretty good I just been working now playing basketball just trying to keep saying because a lot of things are very uncertain but you know it is what it is on basically just taking it one day at a time this all %HESITATION epidemic that is happy and I there was no plans for it so are you really do is just take it one day at a time absolutely yes so many looking for it said talking to you but you're you know %HESITATION coming nights are you happy to see and just bad would you like to tell us about the what it's a bite me can get into specific things as we go yes sure I can just give a brief overview of the book is suffering in silence August fifteenth two thousand three and follows a character named Ricky who is one year older than me I'm twenty six with the characters twenty seven and it basically just takes you through a very long and complex journey of a young man who's been doing drugs alcohol and he's been in domestic abuse situations but he covers it up by basically running away from all this problems but eventually he has that coming to I wouldn't want to see come to Jesus moment but just one of those epiphanies is we basically just says enough is enough and I have to change so he wasn't just a very interesting characters along the way yes this is going to be released on the fifteenth of August is that right yes that is correct but there is a sample available because I read through it there are a few days ago it's a really nice samples to give you an idea of that set up both Ricky and what his situation is and there's a sense of what has gone under in his past we can see how much you want to get into that because you might not want to give the whole plot of that away but certainly from what's readily available already that's setting up quite a lot to do less you know there's an inter generational conflicts and he's a substitute teacher so he's got a very precarious working lifespan or something he's going to grace are these all things that you've been exploring in your affection today it is this by way of investigation or something that you're just trying to work three three section you know hi is that you come to a circus on these kinds of issues no I've always seem like a lot of a young man doing with a lot of personal problems and mostly just bottled up inside and not really talking about it basically just saying well you know I'm fine I'm good I don't need to talk about anything and you know they just have regular job just like Ricky yes just as a regular job goes to a whole bunch of events anything like that and he basically just says well you know as long as I just have one more drink as long as I just have one more drive I'll be fine and nothing else will matter and unfortunately it's the same emotions are seen with other friends and other people when it comes to like relationships personal problems it's always just the I'm fine I'm good mentality but then when you got to sit down and talk to them and actually realize they are in good actually need somebody to talk to which a lot of people are very good at doing because not too many people are good it just understanding what somebody's going through and I think you've got that gender aspect as well because I get the sense from reading it that there's this macho cultures that Ricky's coming up against that he's not saying he's not permitted to have feelings about things yeah it is like Ricky definitely grew up around a lot of like I wouldn't say he grew up around a lot of name but he grew up around guys like him where it's just you had to toughen up like he used to play basketball the couple people but they're all just like the same kind of people they just didn't talk about anything as long as they live through it they were fine and that was their mentality Estes from my perspective you know being a woman in the world and having that other side of toxic masculinity we have to remember is that it affects men that firstly so much of the time that when we teach boys that they're not allowed to be science or share with their sadness and then that has results and possibly addictive behaviors because while they're in P. and so they need something to contract that P. N. but they're not allowed to talk about it either Ricky he he seems to keep weight on this car you know he needs just one more drink before he can do something it's a really interesting way of exploring facts the first chapter it's really quite poignant swear he's not coping with his mother's funeral no not at all and it's one of those things where it's like his mother was really close to him yeah like I don't want to give too much information but I'll just say this is father wasn't close to him but weren't given his mother you know obviously when somebody dies in your family it definitely takes a toll on you so Ricky's mother it was like his mother and his father right so you feel like you lost to parents at the same time it's interesting as well his working life because it's not just that he's a substitute teacher he's working actually with special needs children and young people is paying and he's like I think he feels sometimes he's a hypocrite because you know since he doesn't want to talk about his problems he's supposed to be helping people who have problems but he can't even help themselves and that's one of the reasons why he's you know spiraling out of control all the time because he feels like he's a walking contradiction but he doesn't actually know how to cope with which actually was a toll on him yeah he has some very tense encounters with the head teacher at the school he's something on me that was really telling where because narratively where it touched your brekkie it's his voice but there were times when I can thank all I can tell what that person is taking a bite him and projecting on M. T. now there's a part where he he's so exhausted he can't keep his eyes open any accent may falls asleep at his desk and this is something I have done right you know what I mean like that it's that if you're having a really awful time you're going to be some sort of emotional trauma as he is and you just physically comes in your body just says no nothing there's been times are like I'd actually would not eat my lunch look I was just you know so mentally and physically drained I'm just like I'm so tired and then I fall asleep in my car and then I have a thirty minute lunch break then I go right back in in the mail I just pretended like everything was fine and I talked to my buddies afterwards so you know I wouldn't be feeling so like frustrated or anything like that it definitely happens to the best of us yeah I find that the intergenerational saying fascinating as well because I don't know how conscious it is free if you want to elaborate but certainly from the start of the bank that part that I was able to be needs its older white men he seemed to put pressure on Ricky would you say that's right where do you think it's just the older generation in general I would say a combination of both but more just like the older generation in general like definitely with the older women around him he definitely feels is is because with Ricky he doesn't really believe in god it is one of those things and everyone else believes in god but he doesn't so there's times he feels like isolated and you can't really stand up for themselves one of those quiet passive submissive guys and he turns to food for his own addiction unlike the older generation just doesn't get it because he feels the older generation is has this suck it up get over it kind of attitude and he's just like well wait a minute just still doesn't make any sense because how can I get over something if I can actually talk about it yeah I think that's another reading because she that he represents so stop disconnect this was as a millennial for me and being a child of baby for her so it's like you know I understand that tension ready while is just get over it to you know sort of thing but it hurts you know and you're in pain and they're also in PM and maybe they would all be in a little less being in our we know how to cope with their pain a bit better you know carry it Senate not define us you know or debilitate us isn't so much every ticket that was strictly that he does seem to be really isolated and in that he's carrying yeah he definitely has he has friends to talk to one of his friends is Phil but like him and Phil have they were very weird on and off relationship one minute they're friends the next minute they're not friends and like he's the only friend he has left but they've been friends since they were like kids but it's just you know eventually fill became more toxic for him and actually a body because everything was a lot more simpler when they weren't drinking when they were smoking together but everything became more complicated when they put those two things into play yeah I haven't been able to rate as far as not yet so I have met still but certainly Ricky's work colleagues that's a really %HESITATION I don't know how to pay that it's almost explosive the episode that happens with his colleagues I think their assistants teaching assistants and set yeah the bridge is the main teacher and those are his like para professionals and it goes back to like Ricky being more like passive likely back all of the situation would just resolve it so so much I will do too much and as long as miss weathers doesn't say anything to head principal and then I'll be fine so you kind of do is unfortunately less the whole situation go and it's fascinating because then when it does go up you can see high from the right side it looks like he's possibly for he's lazy but because we're in his hands and the narrative we understand that he's frozen he sends fighter flight he's in survival mode because certainly as somebody with anxiety I really connected with it on that level of Anna so it really throws I'm not on a lot happens with these people there's a lot of issues going on my face three very very different people he get combined and it spent like a Petri dish that blows up allowed thank you yeah and it is just one of those things where it's like as you said before like how Ricky just becomes frozen is because like where he's not really used to confrontation and like anybody who like tries a late challenge him or just talk to him he doesn't really know what to do because he has very like poor communication skills but he has announced hills to become a teacher but not enough skills to be like a leader yeah that's really interesting to think it's because he does seem to say if you don't see him too much interacting with the children and I think because it's his voice he doesn't go into too much but he does seem to be very aware of their dynamics and high the children are going to it to work well I mean I'm saying children but they're young people you know they should have ten fourteen it's just that they might have low functioning autism or some other kind as mental disability which means that they are you mentally very young but he seems to have a real way with them he knows some reading while he knows what's going on said work with them help them that sort of thing so he's been away quite enchiladas or he's prepared to learn do you think there's pressure on people of his age to people than there should have edging into their later twenties do you think there's pressure to be leaders stand is that something you're exploring it Betsy GS in no because like with him there is pressure for him to do it but I think Ricky's mind is just so gonna you can actually just push himself forward he wants to actually be like a leader you want to lead by example he really wants to help these kids will like mentally he just can't get out of his own thoughts so I definitely believe he wants to become the leader but in the book you realize it takes some some time to like a girl who he is as a person and as he figures out who he is as a person things start to become better in his life okay I mean it's a bit of time because I think anybody's brains regarding exercise and you're going straight as well it's not tends to be high it is I'm thirty five now and I think in my twenties as a second adolescence so you do your adolescence %HESITATION can you figure it out so hopefully that's what is going on for him it's a tough read I thought this other couple of chapters because SMS the park professional says as you say are and there's very ableist language coming from these people here supposedly working in last December okay and there's pretty petty arguments about things that are nothing to do with their work but they're also it's quite clear that they're not getting paid enough for what they do they and their asses she there was not a sub machine that you were trying to deal with in the back as well yeah because like are you still at work at a school and right now I'm still working on another school but there are times when like there's people that have become very frustrated and I've heard like some pretty crazy stories I don't know if it's true or not but I definitely will listen and observe a lot of the stories in the main argument was we're not making enough money and you hear this a lot in the news and it's absolutely true but unfortunately you hear the really bad part about in the news where there's actual people who are taking their frustrations out on everybody else and me I've always remain professional I've always just sat on the side income so I was always going to be fine but I never took it out on the kids because they're just random kids that's it they're just trying to get an education and go home we do the best we can do it now and that's all we can really do I suppose then there's something to be set up by the state it's interesting that the few characters that I've encountered and the little bit of the back I've been able to read as he seems to have embassy Arnold's and Ricky same state because although he's talking from at some point if he he does seem aware of other people what's going on with them and then that there's not really much evidence from a lot of the people he has to work with that they see them as they are they too much wrapped up in themselves was that something you were thinking about it yeah I do believe that some of the pair professionals they do care but it's just there to trip up about the money and it's all about the money but it soon because like I said money we all do need money but most importantly in order to keep making money you have to you know keep on working got to establish both incomes and most importantly even if you're making a lot of money you could still be miserable and the reason why I can still be miserable is because if you're making money doing something that you don't love then that's just not going to turn into true happiness do you want to talk anymore right there the massacre piece aspects of the bank even just highlight a little bit %HESITATION yeah we didn't mention just a brief amount of A. I know with %HESITATION Ricky it's one of those things where and as the title suggests is that his father was one one minute though playful giant and the next minute he was just a monster and it was because his dad had so many issues and I believe it ties into way is passive aggressive behavior is because he doesn't want to be like his father and I think that's a lot of pressure with a lot of young man today's because we either have good fathers or you they have bad fathers and when it comes to our society a lot of us don't know how to actually talk about our issues because these are far they're not actually talking about it or we just didn't have a father in the picture I mean the absent father choked but it's one that we're cursed a law and any kind it's fiction writing but it feels like it requires because it's not that lists you know they're still SL happening all the time minutes part of that possibly meant to type of culture would you say it's a combination of like the macho culture but it's really just not understanding who you are as a man because there's no man who just are very like a macho and try to put on a facade but there is so much pain but that's just how they have been used to doing what they're paying unfortunately what we've been saying before like a lot of men don't like to talk about their issues well I've been learning a lot of them are just afraid to or they just they never learn how to actually talk about these things because he never wanted to be deemed as being weak yeah and that's not a weakness like talking about your feelings talking about your problems is not a weakness if anything is one of the strongest things that you can do because you're actually opening up beside yourself that no one has ever been able to see before and that's one of the most beautiful things that anybody could ever do men or women it takes a lot of strength to admit sometimes that you just need help or you just need someone or something that's okay I'd really like to ask you as well about your practice as a writer what was it did pretty compelling GTCR writing after you've been writing fiction for a long time or is this something fairly recent freeing something that's part of your life in a big way yeah I've been writing fiction for quite some time %HESITATION I usually I recently graduated from college in two thousand seventeen with a communication degree so I've always been in select the arts creative writing and all those kind of things but when I came out of college like I had no idea what I wanted to write a bill and it was just like always trying to find the right story like you try to paint yourself over all these kind of people I try to pay myself over many authors in the ones that come to mind is %HESITATION Junot D. az Henry David Thoreau %HESITATION lemony Snicket R. O. L. Stine one rule to goosebumps books lemony Snicket from a series of unfortunate events and just on and on and on and I like put too much pressure on myself to be like those people and I feel like I need to be like cable has to be just like these people yeah I got the ball and all these people when they shake and then here comes to me so it took me awhile to just find my own my creative group so over the years I just started exploring with a lot of things I mean I threw a lot of paper after a while I just started to come up with the series suffering in silence I just said you know what it is just gonna be a series of ten part series where I'm just gonna talk about what young men go through because I get so sick of the media one just basically not talking about it into just not telling the whole story so I'm just going to do it and we're gonna see what happens I think that's sad because it's easy to see things from a surface level and really get and date the so important and I think that's what art is so important as well are to nature writing all of it any mode of expression is so important I thought windows N. T. understanding each other yes I agree any hope that gets an audience that way and it helps not just young man it doesn't just show them that actually you can deal with this in another way but also for other people to realize that this is what they experience as well so this is valid this is important and actually we all benefit at stake at address yeah and also I just believe that like even though the book is like ray and for like young men also like I don't want to discourage women from reading it either because like there are women that don't know not everyone of course but there are women out here they just don't understand women go through and like the ages I think books like this will give you a better depiction of what men go through it's not just %HESITATION well he's just in a hole he's just a douche bag ages sheets also and so they're standing up there and it's not an excuse it's just when the mine isn't one hundred percent correct when the mind is a one hundred percent in sync with the physical self then you know destruction always happens and with a lot of men they have a lot of self destructive behavior and unfortunately they take it out on the women and then the woman become resentful and then the cycle just keeps going on and on and on it is one of those things where it's like you just have to break the cycle because if you don't break the cycle it keeps continuing and the destruction keeps happening and then laws basically disappears and that's something we just can't have it's just so lovely it is to hear any mom talk like that it's really nice it's okay can I ask by your experiences with self publishing and producing E. books as well as physical thanks %HESITATION yeah was so promising I'll be honest I'm still new I'm still learning the ropes but most importantly like I just wanted to just go out here and just do my own thing like the kind of person I am is like I don't like to wait on somebody to make something happen for me like I'll just go out I'll do it myself like all asked people I'll go do interviews all go do anything cause me even myself I'm an introvert but I'm realizing like in order to grow an audience in order to like you know the check more people you have to become more extroverted and it's not easy for me to do but it's just one of those things you have to do but I'm still learning the ropes I'm still getting with advertising marketing and I'm just learning as I go and I'm just hoping for the best but most importantly I'm still gonna just published a book either way this is what the technology allies for not only is he starts about at least for more people to have a voice from what you've experienced so far is there anything you think would be useful for other aspiring writers do you think it's something where you need to research a lot or do you think you need to just try and just go for it what would you say for anybody else who you wanted to get it yeah yeah I say before anyone's going to like write a book on make sure you definitely get a high quality editor because a lot of books on make Amazon aren't actually will break in and a lot of people just think like when there right away okay I could write this I could edit myself but it's always key just to get like a second editor because I know myself like when I'm writing books like this like I know the book is over like two hundred pages and I'm like well I just wrote two hundred pages like better read it over I gotta take this so I'll take that I'll maybe add this in maybe add that in I can miss things I'm a human being but that's what editors are for and if you get yourself an editor %HESITATION a marketing scheme and you learn about Amazon key words and many other things you need to learn about you'll be fine you'll start to have more success and most importantly joining other Facebook groups and just interacting with other people and yet the last tip is just ask for help okay Astrid you need it because everybody needs help and you're going to stress yourself out and burn yourself out if you try to do it yourself so I suppose but self publishing as with all things there's a team R. I. Angie is a hell yeah there is that's really helpful and speaking at what else you had published sun and I was really interested to see you've done a vegetarian kick back as well yeah they hear a bit more about that I recently went vegan about a couple months ago and I was vegetarian in either two thousand nineteen or two thousand eighteen the later part and it was just a personal decision for me because I wanted my body just to feel a lot better but most importantly I would just see like the animal cruelty going on and it was something I just didn't agree with that didn't want to practice anymore so I decided to just go with the cookbook so everybody could wonder ball what do people who don't eat meat or dairy actually eat yeah so it's like our rate well there you go I publish that book and it's been doing pretty well and it's cold no make no problem yep that's correct yeah it looks really fascinating I'm a vegetarian myself so I thought it was really nice idea the idea well what can you do yes and smart swapping night makes could start something a friend would speak in activism is trying to cry it suffice rather than going though I miss my rockers rips or whatever can I ask you as well a bike then facial aspects of your backs because you got really lovely artwork for them is that something that a friend of yours does so where do you hire an illustrator or anything for your coverage of your fax yeah with all my main stuff I always go to Fiverr Fiverr has very good deals and I know there's one feature we could just post to gigs Sir just wanted to do a book cover I just say Hey I need a book cover for such as such within twenty four to forty eight hours and I get around like twenty thirty people respond to me within twenty four hours and it's actually really good to do things that way because you can see who is really good because he was not really good you really don't like the product you can get someone to actually edit it over and over again or you just take it to somebody else and get a refund but I never had any bad experiences on Fiverr those are the things I use whenever I want to do like cookbook layouts book covers a book formatting editing any of those kind of things so I would definitely suggest fiver well that's great because you've got a really nice cover for suffering in silence Sarah and passion of Ricky I think with this headline little back he has a narrative voice it's first person then he makes a lot of references to his size he seems to be very uncomfortable in his own body I think that comes across quite nicely actually and in the image on the cover yeah the idea was like Ricky still no matter what still feels like the fat kid and I can't give too much detail on why he feels like he's the fat kid it's one of those things are you going to have to reinstall it but once you read the whole book you'll understand why Rick you always feel like the fat kid right just a small of my back for ads I feel the read that senator rex already because I feel like I was I thought Kansans and my twenties lost a lot of laughs and radically changed my diet and not sort of thing there are certain areas where I feel like as it isn't just for young man there's a lot of people he will be able to connect with Ricky on a lot of different levels because he's got a lot going on actually so you mentioned this is part of a ten part series so that's a really ambitious projects that you're working on G. have a plan for that it's a great to be the same characters or is it going to be different people so it's going to be different people but basically the whole series will be about a ten book series it's always going to revolve around a young man to the ages of eighteen to thirty six and the same things will apply we're gonna still be talking about depression anxiety domestic abuse sexual abuse and all these kind of things and just any topic that I could find that a young man goes through I'm just going to keep doing my research and I'm basically going to make a whole fictional series out of this it's just going to be based on realism and magic you won't be short of material do you think this is something that's very specific to the United States or it's quite a universal thing as well do you have an idea of what broader areas you might get into what sort of experiences yeah I believe it's definitely one of those worldwide kind of things but in America we talk about it I don't know what happens in any other countries but I know it's one thing when it comes to men like it's always like this statement a like you can't miss a day of work you have to go to the gym like you have to be a certain size like you have to do your certain way you have to be a certain height and it's just all these like crazy state mows and it's like somebody just made a mark and it just seems like we're all just going along with it again is nobody's really like questioning these things but it seems like in America times and you question things people just kinda want to try and silence you and the idea of this book is yes it's called suffering in silence but once you read the book you start understanding the actual suffering because with my idea is I want to be as transparent as like humanly possible because whenever I watched like the media or whatever I watched some books it's like I get this feeling that people are trying to like sugar coat something or just trying to hide something but with my books I don't try to hide anything I believe that's the reason why they become so good certainly the sample of suffering in silence that I read it there are times you have to remind yourself as the character saying that it's not it's not it's not risky at this other kind of injure and he's not saying that you know because they're going in safari at G. areas and I think specially because I mean I sort of find myself night and a couple of sinking the way you're talking you know so people here are empathetic people you are trying to understand each other and then you go right into the world again or you see something on social media and you go oh oh not everybody feels that way right that sort of person that's all not some comfortable shoes you know and that's about it said it will actually going there because people J. Hobson's really problematic opinions about two thirds of other people and it's fine right how do we come from thought but keeping ourselves six so it seems like you do in your pics of real potential to try and expose lead the way and maybe hold somebody's hand in trying to do that I think with books like mine is just is not really a bow or trying to I wouldn't necessarily say this is like one of those kind of books electrodes to make everybody happy and trust it goes more into like because I I mentioned earlier that I'm a big fan of like the series of unfortunate events I used one I was like in middle school like goose bumps so I've always been into like horror drama psychological films and books and things like that and I believe the reason why they were so good and the reason why I like watching him the red M. over and over again is because they were talking about issues that no one else is talking about and I found it fascinating and I will relate to all the stores like Hey I could find myself in this kind of character and that's actually a very good thing to do because a lot of people want to be understood however a lot of us actually need to have somebody to understand us yes yeah that's really wild pets yeah gosh yeah I really see that was just thinking about it Ricky Nye actually that he needs other people to understand him and see him and that's not what he's getting certainly and what I've read stats really and since thank the thought why cannabis or anything else you would like to talk about it because I mean it says on your profile so different for each episode making as well is that something that you want service of making TJ I don't feel making before but I haven't been in the game in a very long time so it's been about four years so %HESITATION last documentary I made was help us and it was revolving around the issues that people go through but is more drug related and the documentary is a bow and fields people from eighteen and up and basically they all have a problem with heroin and I was just trying to give people a reason you know it's a tune into my documentary to show everybody like Hey people know they hear what is going on it's not that the cops are just being silent they're still just trying to figure out ways on how to actually stop it so I've got some pretty good interviews with counselors %HESITATION cops there's also a center at the Enfield television when they're actually doing a couple of a couple of videos just trying to you know bring awareness to the actual issues going non because there's a lot of people are dying off here when and I wanted to tell people that okay there are still rehabilitation centers there are still drop boxes where you can actually drop the drugs inside the box and you will be one hundred percent anonymous and there's so many other solutions so I definitely would recommend everyone check it out the video was on YouTube all you have to do is just type in help us documentary and you'll be able to find it all great great yeah I just try to find it but I'll try again get a link up so it seems like in your creative practice do you think your work is didactic in a way that you think you're trying to get people to to see beyond the surface or to see behind the curtain kind of staying with a lot of these yeah I would definitely say that like I would just say that it's just a very like transparent way there's a different way of thinking I know on my blog unpopular opinions I always talk about like rethink everything and basically everything that you've been not everything you've been told is alive but a lot of things that you've been dealing with as a kid isn't actually normal you just been taught to believe that is normal like for example like young men like when it comes to just dealing with issues it's always drugs sex and alcohol is because of a lot of films that we see where that's just what we've seen and that's what we emulate as children but we actually don't realize that as adults this really wasn't the way to handle our things and now we're dealing with a whole bunch of other mental health issues and we have no idea what to do and now since we're afraid we're not going to actually talk about it we're just going to keep continuing the cycle yeah is there anything else you want to flag up to talk about eight to twelve or do you want said direct people where to go to find all your work right now I'm still in the works of a website of mine is actually under construction but if you just go on tour my Instagram page Caleb page cake you can just check me out on there that's where I'm most active you can look me up on Facebook a could the bears seven one six you can also check out my blogs on unpopular opinions dot com where I basically blog every Monday feel free to share with all your friends and family thank that's great is it okay if I ask you about your Instagram handle D. actually hits cake %HESITATION yeah I do actually do cake and I've never actually told anybody about this story but I'll just do a quick summary Stargate called shattered dreams by the band %HESITATION Johnny hates jazz this will be his name is why was it was more of a play on words of the actual band it didn't sound right to see Caleb page country ended with a cable it's K. and mentions it's been stuck here for like the past three years and it's funny because people like would come to my page you probably think I'm like a very hateful guy what they called the page to see all this positivity like what's all this right now like what you're shocked it's a gorgeous paying it's actually I think the year all your past Instagram post install cost you just for speak enough hope from positivity it's so lovely it's really wonderful you got a lot of inspiration there for a lot of this I think I hope you don't raise I hope I don't either but you know I I believe just leave which is eating better mentally and physically I don't think we're going to lose any time soon that's wonderful it's been so lovely talking to you yeah I really hope we can keep in touch I hope all keep smile and Connecticut's %HESITATION somebody's just says great interview you got some nice grease you definitely do well I hope that helps get word I eat for your back yeah I really encourage people to seek out hold on that I think I'll I'll try and get the back and read it all property because I'm not quite Hector really want to see what happens next is wrecking I really like them and I want to know what's going on with him and she's gonna be okay there's just no one more thing %HESITATION the Amazon paperback will actually be available August fourteenth okay I just had issues with Amazon but it'll be available August fourteenth for paperback but still right now you can get the ebook version and it'll still both books will come out August fifteenth two thousand twenty wonderful thank you so much Kayla you take care of yourself the visual cultures podcast with me call up there and my very special gas in the Paris thank you so much to him the music is common crimes by our tone licensed under creative Commons three point zero non commercial license and it is downloadable from CC mixer don't work thank you all so much for Watson this man give us all your lovely share some likes and hearts subscribe I can't expect and be access to each other
this is already official cultures the podcast exploring signed an image based cultural production I'm your host policy ladder this weekend's ratio than I take on the gas all rights if this is the first time you joining us a very warm welcome you can find all our previous episodes on the podcast's page of the website at audio visual cultures dot wordpress dot com if you listen regularly and conspirators ons pledge support via Patreon dot com to sustain and improve this work on to help us reach wider audiences we're very grateful for all financial support as well as lessons shares and likes on social media I'll be back at the end with further ways of keeping in touch tonight enjoy the discussion Christine that kind of complex and we have attempted to a pickup Christy talents just to walk to her knowing that we're both went on Jan nine and like just watched Jordan peel's directorial debut get I used to be the main in the water for a while we didn't see this and then they haven't lost it tonight because we are both wins but it wasn't scary necessarily I think we might have made a choice specifically geared to eventually be scared we would spot cost pastas and we seriously tense moments there's a very moments third screw you could the governor's challenge by bending what counts as a horror film I'm just looking at what various websites close it as soon as it is it's Hara it's got harder and factions and there's a lot of sheets of the shining and towards the end I think in this is going to go to awards night of the Living Dead or is it just a hint that I'm picking up %HESITATION and actually does the opposite of night if nothing does maybe it's a reply to that and %HESITATION but there's definitely quite a lot of shades EQ broken there yes it Scerri and a very different kind of way I think scary and probably just high rails embedded racism as even and black paper which seems to be largely what it's actually about eight so the white supremacist racism for that believing in the stereo types %HESITATION protesting too much I'm not a racist Bob Sabiston those services she adds yeah but also hi angry ends at the comes the history of the file when you've been there press the legacy three head straight when you've been oppressed people hi that is a radius and higher inseminated and cherry I mean in this case so you're separated into white culture white ways of life why northern ways of life in the United States you've been appropriated for other purposes so it's slavery by another form yeah I'm just in order of how well that was done on the other that's how it's taking up my price this is gonna be and is that right US and Canada box office two hundred fifty five point five million dollars budget for half a million dollars %HESITATION he said this donation incredible amount you can see the budget is on screen it's a low budget but the budget has been paid and to give me some sense three inventive cinematography we were thinking the whole way three you're learning things by what you're not shown there's a lot of getting arrives things there's a lot of and Cameron I faxed to allow you to believe that you've seen something that you really happened so there's a lot of proper cinematic tracker rate and the best possible way and really really resourceful use of the tales of their disposal Arabic accent certainly from the research I've ever done on Sally potter who works with very small budget since while maybe one to eighty million pines which is a similar kind of well he said he kind of reminds us dollars and the economic use of the budget it's just fifty nine ninety of Orlando where you've got these huge that evaporate cost you nine Bucks a lot of time and energy went into rehearsals for weeks before and then they we cast things and one or two takes and move on to the next occasion because it was all P. C. every penny on the screen and you watch this and it's really high production value E. and I would not have guessed it costs so little to make this film it's old school it's a pretty positive I would say that's clockwork for small beautifully done and I really was not seeing things coming this is going to be hard to what people praising the phone made by some black people isn't something I'm cavalier like sort of like character but this is probably the point it's made as much for office that is for anybody else because dot and fired it's kind of racism is so much a part of the problem is that where you're protesting to match that you're not racist because of all the black people that you can name and a lot of the character states that they see him unless I missed in the bay it's O. G. like golf icon Tiger Woods really probably not the case or it's just been named the one black person that I can think of that's it brought a route and this guy has no interest in these things I know one person Hey again didn't see this coming in that so class where the one person who takes and then tracks and crafts for crafts and him as a photographer and this guy J. M. Hutson the gallery owner he's blind and very well last season yeah reply some of the characters yeah thirty five no no to tell massive spoilers and this one the idea if it can't nothing it should ship like block parties as a commodity three fifths of things for a very clear day and the natural use of the black bowtie it is you're thinkin it's some kind of indoctrination are brainwashing or something it's even worse than not it's actually heading in a white person and then save and taking over a block ball playing for the survey over the phone the process one hour forty five minutes a survey of about a one hour twenty four yeah mark there's a big group it's a very big fan actually it may be I'm trying to sort of thing but certainly any the reviews I ever heard or read said Victor something in it and that you're not going to see it coming and I really didn't return a spoiler yeah but the point is is that the guy who wants his fall date once and for his ice so that he's actually been targeted specifically by somebody of this community this pharmacy costs really send Esther span on the idea %HESITATION lake %HESITATION and of course yeah you to pick up on it so so relatable on Georgina saying I feel like part of family it turns away it is a rose's grandmother really send us there that is packed with allusions to American horror films back into the communities that have cheated death and someone was thinking when rose's father means neither side business do you talk about how that goes Marcus is available to quickly means is they have the power to take I don't know if I wasn't pregnant melania person's body and in so doing give that person a rectal exam tomorrow but also there's this idea of appropriation and that's a very white colonialists neo colonialist thing today there is a point made by the power of ornaments I insist on taking crafts on the terror of the hi ace and makes a point of showing in the parable ornaments wherever they found at least somewhere in Asia I think happened on the night but yes so there's just this idea of food packaging and this is from this place and I love traveling I travel all over the world it's so great to fix various other people's cultures and that kind of thing and how many times have we heard that your very wealthy white privileged person say those sorts of things to be able to go anywhere in the world because she have that kind of mobility and you have the money share to cherry pick bits about culture and bring it back with you okay so that you always have that there's a deliberate that's set up for you that pillaging of other cultures but it's less surely taking people being abducted by this small community they're the descendants of people who were abducted from a continent and their bodies C. ace three that's on page mehr buyer and then it's just happening all over again in a different form in a more technology ice advanced medical form is important for that but the mobile phone reveals that Chris our main character four seven year tenure how do I think it is September ninth net correct they were main character Chris finds out but when the when the audience numbers finds out that he's has been auctioned his body it's an option to one of the members of this compound is connection to family because of his group is called hold the curriculum that mine is really coming down because it's going to come up with a conversation with Chris and residing elsewhere on the plantation house were on the property the ocean is being carried out silently search just roses that facing the camera doing stuff that happens to happen Bango cards as well as other peoples %HESITATION into holding up an account but the first few shots of him holding up his hands and pointing the finger some people have been accounts I'm not sure throw quite close into the people several other something intercut with shots of resin Chris talking elsewhere the biggest thing is happening so the only music from thank you bye I'm only off the first few into cuts back and forth between these two things that the camera get sufficiently disturbed yeah I was living in a shelter was moving away from the car to get special assistant to show the next Rosenstein there was an a frame from grace sure but reserves Washington correct I wrote down that was almost exactly the one hour mark of forty four image minutes inside it was pasta half way no suspects have been built by that point the firm went okay we now can tell you one big thing about what's going on and then of course and have another big thing six one three nine times of having stages where it went okay if they let it worry about should be about the mores and then you should be quite worried and %HESITATION basically should worry about or if that was needed for the second level when you look back on the film and that Hans warned she had everything is actually it has prompted all the states because this guy Jim Hudson he's sitting in the state waiting everybody else is that the party had a great time he setting there already waiting he's waiting for the auction P. thank %HESITATION he's just staying out of the party patients telling I but no he sent his research he knows exactly you Chris says maybe he's actually got them to see him all right we don't know that because it seems like some roses the daughter of this family has grown up and nice environment and she's charged with beating both children are actually she and Jeremy but they both have very different approaches his very violent it's a very violent form of kidnapping where is she as more of a situation %HESITATION she begins a romantic relationship with the person draws them in that way I think there is a phone hello this is telling us stuff that we need to know that some of them doing so with a lot of stuff and not telling as I said we need to know right from the start of the quote maybe because in the pre credit sequence we have Jeremy wearing his nights how many have ducks saying go ahead and send out three Andre Hayworth yes I did have the procedure done forty one thousand minutes of a man called login and it was simply wears his face this kind of night helmet he's got a white car and he's playing run rabbit run on is the system on the car he just swipes this going dry hay with six minutes back and drives off and that's the end of the previous sequence that gets us ready to expect our productions by a guy in a car yeah and so the whole thing with Chris going to supervise these parents what we've been told to do is to not have any suspicions about nine one zero yeah it is from the rear lights on when Chris is managed to find his way out of the Armitage house just introspect and Caroline texture is big my grandfather generally seems to kill the Texas keystrokes actors James Caan and sees what is in the engine %HESITATION run rabbit run V. six thousand right and he sees this is no I tell them ninety six officers it was a callback to something bad had happened about an hour and a half yeah they have a phone that goes as we told you about it well enough and clearly enough your memory the character of J. he's nervous walking around that neighborhood it's a very well today neighborhood and there's no people around it's totally it's barren almost to people and it's just this one car going past that's the only sign of any kind human activity but it's a very Stepford wives looking area everything's very pristine and tidy and Baker uses and leafy avenues and he's on the phone with a friend voicing concern not feeling safe and it's kind of neighborhood he's somebody he's from Greco Latin and he's not feeling safe than the car SO Stein at post up ahead of time he walks the other way the car stops he becomes aware that it is stops when he'd expect you know there's a lot of stuff going on behind people's backs quite a lot Jermaine money should sneak up on him but he knows he's not safe Hey Spidey senses going off you know seasonal and a safe place where I stand that's the worst kind of it's a black window kind of seduction the roses staying because he draws the men there's a false sense of security that's been together for four five months I have this discrepancy between them about how long they've been together but he's really hard to use really decided with higher and it builds up trust it seems like the right time to thank well I'm serious by this person and that's meet the parents and do all of that jazz night and so it's all been a long con he's a little Satan is an elegantly done yeah and it's so violent I mean the thing with Jeremy it's obviously Firelands jure knows there's a threat of violence he just knows this is gonna go badly for him and it's done quickly but then with crass so John I and the violence is so massive because it's fat and motional investment if you paid in someone for a long period of time and all of that coming crashing down nine and Henry they knocked on the thing that she could possibly be involved in something unsafe great until the very moment when she chases surveillance when your number's going to think she's certainly she description of course I was switching back and forth he finds the shoe box full of the photographs of the previous conquests of cars I thought she's beating them and then the characters such a good actress that you think of maybe she's been hypnotized into doing this as well and I was back and forth when she was two and then looking for the case and it became so protracted I thought oh no no she has to pay them and then she goes I think Katie and she reveals that yeah she has a thing for a film which ends with a loss of violence and it's not simply the kind of standard horror thing it is someone who's a psychopath doing violent things to make them they ordered violence that companies for this the other way around it's Chris having realize what's about to be done to him and what's been done to so many doctors before by this group of affected him getting his teeth and a very killing three people including succession indirectly telling another one and then doing nothing to stop using Walter Walter yes hello this is my email for your workers and his name was demanding to stop him coming over he manages to wake him up with a flash of his camera phone that seems to be the trigger because the person isn't totally eradicated they're still part of them and their and he discovered this by accident because he recognizes dried but he just can't get where you know some from each presented at this guy Logan Hey is dressed like an old white guy with this woman Hayes thirty years the same year he can't picture it because this guy too when you see Chris's friends broadcasting their research looking into J. and finding out about his disappearance it comes up on the screen on the search that he would suggest me section so this is somebody again Hey it's not just that they're black people except they're very talented or they're very beautiful black people and there's a kind of master race and I think it's nineteen during the terror he manages to shoe horn and all these different examples of things there's a crack up by the Aryan master race it's actually the inverse of what they're doing they're creating this African American master it I have a brother brings one exactly yes and dump it on purpose makes total sense my phone number is that dean is giving Kristen told the house and says this is my dad and he was for my grandparents what happens is this is my best friend he was beaten by Jesse %HESITATION it to the U. S. Olympic squad for the platinum picks in nineteen fifty something and so this is kind of anything matter of somebody having been made to live with the idea of being physically inferior right from the start despite being quite physically strong we are delighted to find that that person is going to be successful in the body be on the ground full text of my friend's wife running abilities he just wants to use the fine good morning Mr we're going strong so they do work there and it's quite frightening moments that it's a moment where you post to start to race one motor problems he could have run anywhere but he runs directly asked correct and then very suddenly veers off there is a deer in the headlights moments without we do spend a lot of time in this account for sheltering in the Chris is going to harm is that he's going to be taken and nearly killed Muhammad we just have a lot of time looking at the time okay is fine a call a couple of big on this very expressive eyes yeah and then we can be harmful a photographer as well it is very fascinating Heidi did they have to send them to Constantine or and I can't remember her character's name is mistaken I kept hearing are being referred to as Mrs Armitage implementing but the names as well because Chris Washington the Armitage family there's just something about you the names may be that thanks Beth further investigation but there is something about eight maybe stay with the plantations that makes it better poking around death with hurting the hypnotism and it sticks scraping of fifty seven and a Cup of tea and the topping it's not even that it's just that the system there so much sharing involved in that on the show much of having someone almost drowning in their own trauma and being blamed and made to feel guilty and shameful for their own trauma for their own victim heads specifically have a trauma talking about is Missy inputting Chris on that without his consent I wish we could because she does it by starting a conversation with him about when he lost his money on she turned the car accidents he was sitting at home just watching TV and it was raining and he didn't do anything when she was a good year he just waited and waited and waited for the scale because she didn't actually Dinah contact the straight away if you don't like to think that maybe if he called someone yeah my friend and fellow also in the last ten year old child before you go for something for which you could yeah okay no it's not so that's expletives to put Amanda and then when he's under I wrote down there to meet at CinemaCon do intend %HESITATION focusing because it dramatizes physically his psychological state and being mmhm and it's done for you having him sinking to the floor and then sink further down into what seems to be this vast continent on board and we should put a few shots from him of what's about him and you can see a tiny little fuzzy screen TV yeah with what he can actually see other designs for men and separately for you deep very similar to the kind of the TV screen I mean can CBO into just looking down and talk and then the extra violating his order to me is that he's been just puts into his bag after that one and persuaded that it's a drink that when elected in the morning he goes okay yeah for the next album and then is to find out later in the day that it did actually happen I can see why find a place where I can take the moment where he starts to free himself ready comes to be a and the baggage that was never an extra time at the end there's no sense of any hurrying tool six times okay what is our friends of our phones okay he makes those people as much as you want because they find it violated you or a battle to fight right you're gonna find every possible way the moment I suppose where he goes to strangle roads he's the last living passing around and whoever was evil and wrong for this body the short list of things that were just leaving crest and then Mister Rogers he's been shocked by that person goes to strangle her to finish it off and he stops I did for myself was start singling out from something %HESITATION okay this is just going to go all the way the film's deliberately made us think that same thing all rights reserved going strangling a woman here he's been in a relationship with she did not speak during physical doing where she was parking tackling things let him change were taken out of place would it be okay but he can just decide it would be okay but then you just just leave it there yeah but that's the mirroring of how he describes his mother being left to bleed to death acts like he's able to forgive himself for that there's a realization that was not my fault this is not my fault I am the victim in both these cases so there is an acceptance maybe there's a sign that the acceptance of topic tonight I was so anxious when I just kept saying can I think I wrote it down even even if he survives all of this he's not cannot and that's some scary if he's got that's how he's burning bakeries for the dead white paper %HESITATION strangling his girlfriend while the sirens and the lights are going up forty thanks going to be a place car and even he knows my time's up he picked his hands up heading south name gotten everything thrown at me here I'm not can I do that it's done night and then it turns out to be rod and you got these moments of comic relief but very incredibly well timed and rod is because there were times with him I was wondering there's a skier thing record stereotypes of black people in general so the likes of there's a woman he said %HESITATION as it trailed by black men as that batter mating is fax batter another woman feels his arms the physicality of a black man and the X. all the size sexual fun to say of the author there's also the Afaria types like Chris is a smoker he likes to smoke joints has fast friends if this really funny quite file my but for a quick way to it's fine okay so he thanked the jolly bay best friends case loyal to that better and sort of thing but rod as the total say if you're the pace because he's the only person he believes press at start saying if when you call all this stuff happening and you're sure about what's going on and you feel like you're compiling evidence but then when you start to explain it to someone it just falls apart even T. H. S. signs on reasonable it signs crazy and I think anybody who's ever pain and emotionally manipulative relationship whether it's being romantic or with family members who were in a friendship or with colleagues many of us will have experienced something along those lines where somebody's doing something that's driving me upset they run through twice then you try and explain it to someone and as she tried to explain it it doesn't sign logical or there's a reasonable explanation maybe you're over tired and %HESITATION you have another cigarette for awhile so maybe it's that there should be some vaccinations so then you start to signs on Hayden's year the problem and then you start to believe that you're the problem so there's a lot of thought going on with hand and rod is the only person he believes ham wrote himself becomes that person because he tries to go to the place he go specifically say black members of the place force because one woman nationally and then she calls into the other guy captions explained everything and he'd go so you can have it and and okay he could have been more of Boston has presentation box we thank Wes Fang said really do happen with violence it really does happen every single day in the United States to people with brain scan you think that they would believe each other but it shows you that and that is reassess them within your own space as well because they just laugh at him they don't entertain S. so he's on his own and so he comes to the rescue himself at the end and he's our port security so why he has a card it can have any you know make Sir well he doesn't make jokes but they come across is that fast because it's funny and his delivery that he had even more detective training then the detective I mean he's just an S. character he's really fantastic there anyway he thought stereo typical funny five black guy he's ready for a minute and has such a read them every other word if after five he has such a residence here and he can say certain words that we come Friday and get away with it so he's that kind of typical comic right but there is substance to him yeah there is a running of this character and he is not susceptible to the roses manipulations he shocked that I even able to accommodate with losses where Nazism for character development for Chris is one of the public on this phone it doesn't go Hey you know how there's this sense of ways in which you can really involve your audience in the story I'm not gonna do any of those struggle to confront anyone who goes to this real quick I want to show you how almost certainly I can do this entire catalog of things that are part of the program serves one of the servers that are regarded as completely fifteen with a photo of the class classicism in contemporary cinema Chriss change for the better discount I'm confident and it becomes able to stand up to people who make IT and able to just realize what's wrong acts on it immediately it gets significant counselor the firm did a shameful unfortunately my collection from just in the sense of I didn't realize that it was forty five the very first scene before they haven't cut its way back to me could not going ahead with that seventy Shelton to shop the first choice really quite close seven to dry and it's not showing you much in the background so that when Germany finally jumps and its on the information space walks for the mastermind Henderson the compress quite as firing mode while it's making a Rhine Tennessee do you feel pretty disorientated you start to feel his anxiety at being in this neighborhood lows that come from but then the second of those two shots and sequences it's a still extreme long shots of Germany last week and now Jennifer and dragging dry unconscious marking the constant given the very yeah and then a brown ten minutes later at the first show where we get to see roses patrons and the short black crystals are tough to get to see them and makes them thanks for showing him extremely well one of those moments where the action would prompt someone according to have it to go up you know this is about people making use of it this needs to be filled in singles and doubles titles but now it's like the firm is next in Washington right that the film was saying to us what's happening here is exactly the same as what you just so happen in that particular sequence even though it looks like you've been shot with some accuracy the camera does start to pull back as well it does make it static at first and then as they go into the heis at very silly posts by somebody show for so this should be interesting for many aspects of content but also because the cameras and big problem very precisely choreographed many months and have just during conversations another meals yeah focus specifically on the camera's gonna be moving from here to here it's gonna be picking this one three four three if you do that again and again and again but using it yeah the camera one of the characters as outlined in the cash and again yeah well that's why I think they probably rehearsed before they actually shot anything everything that was really precise what I was trying to say with it hell and back but then it reveals Walter Johnson %HESITATION for them yeah at that point he's just the groundskeeper and then we know later the significance of that I thought he's actually the orchestrator of all of this at least the person who calls himself Walter who was previously Roman on the teaching and the body of however this is K. three identities that the people he's being we might call them step for this %HESITATION %HESITATION they've been body snatched it whatever your recorder that is the identity of residency of the persons on the case of the person because of what I became he was originally Dr Haber and then we learned ways Roman Armitage here is a retard twenty years ago %HESITATION he's a buddy of somebody because it's our fault %HESITATION but we know that that's probably no individual names is a third name M. S. somewhere and basically with the fact that dry hay with things been changed came that is I think this is a nation to slavery got it so you just want to get the savings of their own so this change your names or numbers to these lofts and then of course to be able to give dry hay with parties name instances of symbolic way of working as a conspiracy for that matter to them right that's one thing that I guess a man saying change for another certain in his care an inmate press Washington and Logan came research specific names of prominent fakers and yes have straight number brought surname that was in the factory the one thing at the end it's clear plans okay there are two reasons there's going to be looking for the services everything wrong with version of this because sometimes when the film is amazing I do them but they got a yeah we really strict about what about over this one because we can find much over this show really caught up with him and they do like a two minute version what happened to them again Mexico set Hayden suggests developing again it's that idea of you convince someone that they are to blame for something that turned off today and for him to go to the surgery the file and then expose way saying counteracting oxidative suggested validate the suggestion that you could see a situation and a different way or experience life in a different way and she's putting them in the sunken place that really reminded me maybe it was the way it was done but it reminded me of under the skin the place where the card Johnson Marion this taking them then and sort of driving them and that's the one thing just something about it but I do think some against your well being drawn in at stake beyond consent you've given consent to do this but you've been persuaded over a long period of time or three certain set of actions that you want today this one actually if someone had just presented you with it you would see it for what it was so there's a long con constantly happening there the way she sends him into the sunken place but him being a photographer and him always seeing things very free and then there's something as well he says that somebody says something about watching something on television and he said how much television since I was a kid because eight SO zero seven the trauma of facing his mother because he was at home watching the television while she was dying in pain it's just something you can't stay anymore but then they forced him to watch screens they forced him to watch television screens who has experience of being in the sunken place and is on the VA of real life S. three %HESITATION what is like a television screen makes trying to swim through the E. thirty get back to it but the more he fights the more he thanks a life event when he's trapped and that seems to be the basements the card hand binds to the chair he sat in front of an old television it's great and this %HESITATION place explaining to the person and then also tell us what's really happening and that's also high he's repeatedly paid under as that the couple come on screen and climb three times and he'll go under normally I would say this sort of thing coming a mile off but I think it's a testament to hide well constructed the found is there's a motif it's Alicia facial militate of him when he's buying to a chair and scratching the first eight when he has been coined during the middle of the night way mistake and she's starting to hypnotize them and he's grabbing at the arms of the chair and then there's the flashes to a eleven year olds crass scraping chatter with these nails waiting for his mother to come home and then that's married again when he finds to the chair James River price for you okay you have to be prepared for the surgery because there's a darts board behind him their central framing it's a very cute break room and it's often a very cute breakaway century for a M. wide angle lens so that it's building the stored it at some natural failing symmetrical there's a stark bird in the center and then there's the double %HESITATION him in the meta you know it's a sad if that center the fram not kind of thing first in the movement of any subjects the camera can move and so it feels like %HESITATION camels dominating so there's that and then there's the chatter dead center in front of this very old television set that seems to have double speakers either side of the actual screen but she she has no scratching and he scratched the latter all and the fluffy innards are starting to come by and you see him working very some thanks and even the fact that so wealthiest for hands day and %HESITATION when it reveals that he's you you see the stuff I in some high call the dentist heirs to plug his ears so he doesn't hear the crying anymore so he he pretends to be alright but he's not he's away even not to think oh that's how you did at sushi everything and at the line site she constantly but I think that's the point is that this is all going on and planned sites were saying this everyday were saying this in front of us all the time the end battery SSM we're just possibly going along with our lives this film is so calm thing and every way I mean the construction of Kazakhstan what purpose will begin as well as reading a few accounts of alternative endings that Jordan who was playing with an even a couple of actually filmed and want the included that it was the police rather than not he's picked up in the end another one was for anything in which he doesn't escape a completely different thing %HESITATION broad strokes at the house sees Chris goes hi Chris what's going on Chris and stuff yeah right yeah but that apparently Jordan has said that he didn't go with the ending workers is picked up by the police and then wrote twenty two cents to get in I'll try to explain what's been going on because he realized that that the number of consciousness raising injuring twenty sixteen a pile police victimizing of African Americans so he said he initially thought he didn't need to help find FF six or be okay to not have to show that the police don't believe five people and infection it might have been overkill actually because there's already a scene of black cops not accepting Lombok command saying up by another black man possibly being kidnapped and some sort of weird me type of slavery at sign so white Monday shin yet it's perfectly possible he's already actually got that in there so it probably would have been over kept that I think that that was what I was expecting and it was such a relief that they didn't go there and he's allowed to win the day and that's what was making me think actually because I was waiting for the place to turn up and for nobody to break him and for him to just accept no he's gonna beneath me as expected and is it going to be and I just and I think that the black guy is a hero he can't story everything he's done everything right and yet he shows shots that's nice that reliance on the end and you can sort of happy ending in a way he survives and somebody believes him there's a solidarity between the friends %HESITATION that hopefully they'll rebuild something I would say it's probably the right call it's nice to see somebody who spend resources file %HESITATION work to tight surviving perspectives for service did this have to be so about rex couldn't have been some way of getting into fiction the author of a laceration the conflict is America realistic less racially conflicted speaking everybody handing them ahead of the beginning of the film that that's not something which people who are aware of what racial tensions like in the US are ready to arrive I think we don't realize the extent that we do have that here in the U. K. but it's nowhere close it's not even touching what seems to be going on in America at the moment we from marching in the sash of iron colon he is America they they you know I'm fully aware that there's likely to be contrivance because otherwise I really do worry for his life so anyway I hope there's a contrivance and Hey they get on the show but a lot of the people they do get we know our radio concert politicians their profiles are right there to see them being really quite genuine and their basis %HESITATION thermostat to name their homophobia or transphobia the program at the chase it really is terrifying it's time they haven't seen the rape of Recy Taylor and not from they describe the black films of the periods when the KKK was very physical it was actively and axing nine tenths amount of violence on people and they they three S. films were being made by black people for black people so that they have a night that for their stories because no one else was believing them or listening to them so they could at least see themselves and know that we're not making this up this is happening to us I felt like it's taken far too long for the all of this to happen but it feels like it's nice enough to make a film like cat all right to make a point and I think it is pointed that like this is the phone for white people with white people need to say yes because it's white people who have made it's black people racist against each other as well our ancestors have done to their ancestors that has caused this there is a collective culpability here that was even interested in the summer but the statistics because I kept thinking to myself John about a fifteen two thirds the family kept thinking everyone looked the whole there's lots of people being shown very morning or late evening business of people being short with the sun behind them lots of diffuse light and lots of making sure that when you shoot in paper dark skin but you don't make the skin look all the same color and you do that by making sure that you use light sensitivity settings that are specific to different skin tones rather than just using the device and sickness I think this is what's changing not free character which involves lots of not cheating two people in the same frame because it's quite difficult to get all the different shades a single person skin when right next to somebody who's got much larger much darker so it's like that for the first two thousand from and then suddenly turned back when I went to just turn up to the store before %HESITATION everything just often go yeah the lights in the back of the blue %HESITATION and they'll start to look a lot like that basically Reuters when she picks up a phone call from road on Chris's phone line and she's wearing white hair is tied back and has skin it looks like she's about skin bleaching quite slow okay do you want to sit in the main line even at the level of life the fact this okay a big crowd but seemingly if they'll have racial equality we've been telling you about the post office phone I think it probably worked out that the computer side and will not change the way the complete works and it's a great stone terrifying environment yeah in a way it's making this huge comment about slavery where these people were seen as PS and as no better than animals that's how you keep somebody dying when you think these are the updates but we don't want them to know that they're they are late so we're going to make them feel like the lowest form of creature and do everything for us because we counted ourselves because we're a bit rubbish actually but I can do it because they've call this physicality it feels like it was a huge comment about you right back to the origins of slavery because there's this question of why he specifically targeting black people even the only other person who isn't white as the old Japanese guy Hey corn nourish crafts and asks him this really huge we had a clash and %HESITATION by being an African American what that means today why do you expect one person to represent all of this kind of person just because that's what his skin looks like so back to the idea of the they can master if it's this idea of the white people thinking my body is not good enough their bodies are perfect that's exactly what I want I want that physicality I won't but they have I'm taking it for myself it's not taking up the bodies again and then there was a point where when rose had brought on the phone and it was clear that she was going to start to try and manipulate it with ten I can really help thank in Basra where shifts gonna go because would anybody actually want him because I think they may be specifically chose then take off five character he wears glasses and has a bev in Egypt as he really desirable and this year master AS she's just messing with him because it's never progresses issue evidence either way for that kind of comedian but yeah you have to wonder because when you see the photographs and the people that you J. C. N. S. %HESITATION latest expanded %HESITATION lame floral fender old attractive they've called strength physical spades physical agility and I think the thing with Georgina as she constantly being harassed because the painting yourself she's concerned with their appearance she's checking in the mirror and it's because I don't know if we ever get the name but should be that's the grandmother of the family which is actually never really revealed but it's implied when you find out that Walter is Roman Armitage and she's consummating her appearance you never hear voice or anything you see here and the images and photographs the video that presents me to watch and she found the old white woman so she's concierge fan beautiful the %HESITATION bald eighty point today as well that because they've had this brand surgery there's the massive scarring on the head so that men are wearing Hans and Eugene is going away ache so her constantly training %HESITATION Harris it's not even old black people if the physical late of black people as seen through the eyes of the white people this list of nicknames for new forms of race as far as surprises from a B. the racism of unrealistic public expectations the racism of the mean people to be nine more than that bodies albeit by praising them verses of envy this is an event because of the high tech technicians discuss have a mixture of all these things happened very early on right there's a sense because so we're gonna go to my parents this weekend the show on their list and Crisco do they know one park should be here for that and my parents in the press I would have told you if there is that kind of okay well we can just set up right now and in the sense of regarding black people as being uniformly in favor of the white people in every way she's rocked there's just a different sort of race could we perhaps by Michael was one of those films where the medium by which the story is being transmitted to the viewer what I've been collaborating principle in that process is at certain points in the film just about tangible enough to call the end right because it seems not a stone tool came as no character doing for seven right now but but it's a really quite store can hamper the seven point eight seven the right to his focus lies in our main white characters it's five or seven focused increase our manpower on the fire there's even a business and then the backline doctors at the party they're always staring at him they're always looking at him the women quite and accommodate sort of way thank you these gorgeous phase all right that kind of way I even when they're out of focus they're always looking towards him and then he's always looking as well so his combat uses long lenses of the camera to pro se see first serve to try and investigate and also there's subjectivity in the signs on occasions there was a moment with Georgina you get the sense that sometimes her actual file is almost going to override the person has taken over as if that surgery maybe wasn't as successful as the other ones Chris says mass hostility I think he's getting this failing that the other black people who think I drink don't want tomorrow and there and then he thinks at first of its two day with rose that may be there but precious about her and he can figure out what exactly it is and he's being a peeping to nice to being fake nice to me and I can't figure out why they don't really want me around here and it's because there's this tug of war that we don't realize going on inside these mines S. is ten nine seven one Broadway and won a screaming get out of here see if your style kill me on the other is this white person he's been transposed into them trying to go buy things and trying to get him to stay because they want him to become one of them there's this passion PO constantly happening there's moments of slippage with Georgina where the signs when she's pouring ice drinks when she's pouring ites crisis drink she go somewhere in our mind it's almost is that something else takes over the signed starts to blur she they serve way she becomes a bit shocks and then when there's a confrontation between thirteen M. and Chris because he's realized that she spends on backing is phone from its charger and he has to charge ever there's this over right you can see the overhead the acting's Justin credible from everyone because they're doing this double famous double performance I must've taken weeks of preparation of getting this right because tears are coming from her it's a fifteen years of being pushed out of them from something deep inside I don't know how they change that but I think credible and she's telling him with her eyes he need to go you're not safe here I want you to go because this isn't okay but then everything else about her it overwrites the new programming take so far and you get the laughter he kept the smiling the very wide ice and they overnight to you get this flash in the eyes of you need to lay her not safe and then it will be over written by that happy I think that there are very very very little competition between regional cuisine but she goes okay everything's fine I just turned around and leaves she gave way too far yes it's perfect that will touch every Saturday yeah and there were so many things like that of her she's making summer and it's really fast and doesn't make a sign it's almost like she's floating thirst that horrific elements of stopped or something spectral about her and of course she is the co host and away they all are because that this house go for person they're a dead body walking your I. ends quickly saying that this is one of those early novels where everyone involved in screenwriting directing everyone to realize that there are traditions global within months of service and that the way which one does something new there's no point going I'm gonna buy the every single position good move outside of a free single type of story that's ever been banquet definitely parking or something new that's what we do is we take something that has already been done the ordinance is a base model from anywhere and you just do it in a way you want it some of the content is and you shoot it and stated in a way that is okay prosecutors say some neighborhood looks a bit like a specific words hi this is the second one is better Kevin Smith film could red states as well in the morning Texas chainsaw massacre came to mind but the people's brains being transplanted in the forties but they were still under the body stuff that does affect brain Maximilian somewhere but I don't come across anything right now %HESITATION and it's the fact that that originality is a challenge to expectations that have been planted by father aspects of film but %HESITATION notification %HESITATION there's a broker right now another reason sense okay cool back to and from that difference is part of that they were very open with some of the expectations of the motion by this from here okay well the one thing that frustrated if we didn't have those visual elements that would be great I know that we do our best when the new phone quality right now we don't have to I think they're just giving them a call this is taking all the term solid solid filmmaking and given that it means something like two thousand percent profit %HESITATION can go a long way so the best of them so quickly at ten seven other thought about your chain now because the very fail and the photographs and roses ran a situation that was one of those earlier conquests there's this implication that they'll go to any length Hey even as rose she seems to have just been born and bred spokesman Jeremy thing to spend part of bread he comes across as rating on him she's just really erratic and violent there's something about their system controls the level of violence and have money it's just there is something %HESITATION Alex from the clockwork orange support him for me but with rose you know she's the sweet openly accepting her send it's just a very quick moments but the idea that there's this long string of men and then it right at the end the last photograph is Georgine N. so what does that say about sexuality what does that say about what these people what thanks he's preparing to go to a modern way I think this phone for acceptance of something it's not heteronormative but just because there's one woman and that doesn't mean she's bisexual I either she's clearly accidents with everybody so it's all the performance but it fits super acceptance of the house I mean the film about weight of pain where it's Georgina being the pants and not just as a black person but that it's a lesbian relationship so with imagining that it's not just all of that I'd have voted for Obama a third time it's not just that it would explain all the tokens but I Spanien stuff you could think of as well as a sort of like %HESITATION and I'm a huge fan of so and so you know we love Ellen to generous and that's how something like that like it's just imagining that it would be the base and the sexuality and her kids and it would go to a farm protest too much it's very very thoughtful but it is and then zero point which I was very excited to notice where they seem to be a common goal of rose's room seemed to be an album cover by Chris cross river crisscross %HESITATION seem to be cold something is dead this goes with that and you said it like if you took the disco often that great Christmas ads yeah %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION okay yeah something's going on yeah I think they're probably having fun with the Nissan fan detailed email send yeah strong reviews scale and cinematography color range I think one of the tools that they the incidental music was quite conspicuous more of a fine harmful proffered tight curves available posible even slightly sci fi situation I have a firm that everything the wrong way has done everything will get something fifteen I'm probably gonna go see them having some criticisms of the stuff but for the moment we have done this spring I would get only wrapping up on a drug peddler alone said exactly as he paid it but I will say situation handles but not really because this is still a massive problem yeah four nine for this podcast many thanks for listening if you have ideas for future topics or would like to be involved in a recording you can email audio visual cultures at G. mail dot com tweet at eight feet cultures and to find a Facebook page also asked AV cultures take care for night and catch you next time
welcome to episode 22 of audiovisual cultures the podcast that explores and examines different aspects of signed an image based cultural production and their wider impact sons contacts this weekend G. Sheila and I have a post being discussion of Selma the dramatization of Dr Martin Luther king junior's involvement with trying to be in order right and Alabama and centred on that kind of sound them as part of the broader civil rights movement in the nineteen sixties in the United States before we get into that's a big thank you to all our listeners so far whether your regular or you checked in the night the piccolo TA if this is your first time a very warm welcome and I really hope you stick with tests and hope you find a discussion she sold they are usually analytical but of course we often get the personal responses to found that's wild quite a few different frames have been building over the first twenty or so episodes girl hating girl experiences in a little bit of thought comes in today but also the fight for rights and recognition for people who aren't and I'm using scare quotes the defaults are the dominant type of human being thank you so much less than really hope this is useful for very aware of our position as white people in the U. K. dating my thesis questions chatting up by the civil rights movement in the United States try and pick up where we left off a few weeks ago when we were talking about a very very very C. Taylor because she's started to make points by the fiftieth anniversary events %HESITATION freedom said they around you cascina partially because it was in nineteen sixty seven what was then called the university of Newcastle upon Tyne awarded to doctor Martin Luther king an honorary doctorate yes and we've just watched Selma very very late to the party on the phone I think we've both been meaning to watch out for %HESITATION for nearly four years since it came late we've only just managed to get the opportunity to watch it I'm a great believer that you see a phone when you need to see it and I'm failing I think I feel more politicized and more ready mark and James waste on going civil rights issues and particularly this is a great photographs and just yesterday I spent the afternoon on the streets in new castle trying to get people to to months democracy and try and do something to try to tame voter quality and portion of representation and to make votes matter for everybody it's not quite the same since civil rights movement in the United States in the nineteen sixties but it's part of an ongoing struggle with it explains why when you gave me this list of fifteen films this year I gravitated toward so much as opposed to say finding your feet a fantastic woman will hostels a fantastic woman again that's about a whole other set of separate because offset by a trans person trying to get her rights to be who she is and to have her relations department National Party guys but that's a whole other thing for a lot of the time so our focus is on a fed different nice cell mmhm which is really slow at the end of twenty fourteen in the US so we're not quite four years late but we are quite connected to one of those phones has been hunting around at the periphery of my list of stuff to see for quite some time and I say well it would you consider yeah and I think it's just passion as us of this and because %HESITATION I think we extended mentioning Martin Luther king a few weeks ago it from there talking about the C. T. other it's on our minds not just because I got from Kim might roughly forty years after the events at the back stick play yes for us being based in Newcastle upon Tyne S. open quite prescient because Martin Luther king was awarded an honorary doctor here not long before he was assassinated I think it was about six months ago he wanted to be Newcastle in November nineteen sixty seven and eight in Livonia David it's a yellow I think it is fantastic as smiling thinking he's amazing accents yes because we recently saw him and he and the United Kingdom as print thing kings say four months it's really hard to say when their prosthetics with a little bit of hand work hi usually resembles the historic figure he's print because he just watches lots of archive files that person speaking and just a docks that resting phase comes the way that they stick out certain parts of that face when they're talking on those points they were I was losing the media this is a person being mildly thinking I'm just going yes this is obviously certain A. M. and states I thought that was archival but then it's him either that or they've done a seamless mix of the tape yeah I suppose for the benefits of fearlessness we'll find out that the way to the end speech is done is audio archive footage and then after about a minute or so the archive footage then we start to get the visuals of yeah Jim Montgomery from the capitol building that and stick with that technique of cross cutting between the past in the past mmhm how concert film they can if it's just within a short time frame for a longer time frame that's a consistent editing structure like there's this constant exchange because we're still in the past so many of these issues I mean especially in the past two years I think probably that's why the film still so prescient Esther how Spain continue to mergers of black people there's continued racial violence spends taking part in the United States but it's happening in the U. K. S. while she set the phone to packs are issues that are ongoing he said it was about an event that happened roughly forty years before it was actually fourteen now serves nearly half a century in the past the sure to be historical I think I think and it's not that was fantastic as a piece of historical drama for pointing out the logistics behind the protests having Oprah Winfrey's character beyond she's she's trying to register to vote and then the simple set of circumstances where the registrar clearly in Austin have questions that no one there's now where she is as always greeting her from registering to vote and that's the way the film shows that this is what's happening across the south and it's not quiet determination to continue trying to tell you what sneakily writes Veronique and they allow you to vote countrywide this is a legal rights and then a little later on several members of the leadership of the SCLC the southern Christian leadership conference are discussing the larger question of the prevention of African Americans from voting they point out that in order to register to vote you need to have a function as someone who very much is for you it was themselves effectively so if you don't know anyone who can vote and pop because all of your friends and relations are African American and none of them have yet been able to register to vote that's a box and then have several characters listing this catalog of ways in which African Americans and prevented from voting and then another seem to have king himself talking to Lyndon B. Johnson saying its voting and it's so many other things as well the rating on the not being able to fart facts because you can see my jury members to develop and so that means that people are getting left off from crimes that they've clearly committed because the juries that I've been asked to set make decisions about the movement of people who or what and if the murderers and one is after Americans that say there's injustice is something they did a great job of calling plays the specific legal issues including technicalities the these people affecting about anyway that way you wouldn't ordinarily have a single scene where one person in a predicament and sits down and explains what it is has led them to create a political movement in the first place many of different avenues for providing us with some information that as well as a good sensitivity to when things got complicated so why it was for example on the second attempt to March across the Edmund Pettus bridge the state troopers to stand aside and let the marchers but then came just stops and goes the same thing just turns around expect well he needs time should everybody follows and needing to induction moment of silence totally unspoken communication and prior and then he sounds back up and walks through college and that's is that something just and should have been him just not the route he can't even pinpoint it himself he just knew which turned to violence if they continue to this is later on it's still done in his %HESITATION an example of the tensions that exist between the leaders of this movement in the dollar we get little snippets of what it was the content in the meantime back and he mentions that he reckons that there was later bird looks at it yeah to prevent them from getting to Montgomery yeah they got past this country never fail to get back with doctor from getting back again and their their fate would be cut off their past was not fair and so it is better to wait for the court case check out a legal hearing and then to have to be that you had a nice and a non violent way that was a detail in the original story where I mean you are offline right retelling a story like this would go No Way and mia yes sign using backed movement but an entertainment so make it quite complicated because they're used to these precious offense a bit too great that's a bit too inconvenient to fit into a narrative arc and yeah and even I kept that one I suppose it works to an extent as a setback moment well it has to be that moment of conflict because Simone of conflict within the members of the movement because they're challenging him in the paper here on his side are saying they could people are angry they need answers because this is March where a lot of white people travel from all over the country to be less than minutes pointed alright should journalists are counting had since when at the start of the crowd is Caucasian they describe them so lotus summer clergy from all over the country of all different grades people are angry and they want an explanation because they're ready for this March he's held accountable to his own and he says something along the lines of I drive whether they be angry and he hates me and people waiting %HESITATION dads this consequence where you can see him suffering the pain of the people even though his delivery strategy is activists into situations where white officials will lose that rack and will cross the line so people are going to get hurt and starts to show its collateral damage it's not that he's hurting these people but he's knowingly possessing a stretch in which he and his fellow activists are getting in harm's way Bahamas in just because but he's doing it directly to the audience of a lot of films about there's going to be casualties and him repeatedly being seen taking the pain of a boat so take a moment to signal how star studded space for more because maybe this doesn't count as a star from the point of view of the United States him but Tom Wilkinson as these subjects they presently Johnson and I mean it's the two headliners of the caster predation so how David Oyelowo and Tom Wilkinson I'm going to go to work so cruel to say that someone is B. list or C. list but we've got not exactly top flight stars such as Giovanni Ribisi do you recognize the people and I don't know if he's on a long list and I really like to run every PC this paper like Cuba Gooding junior and Oprah Winfrey of course and these are people who don't really have a lot to say when they're on screen they're reading dynamite but they're just not on screen very much mean Oprah Winfrey he only ready has lines when she's playing Alice Cooper trying to register to vote not one of those very arty scenes but it wasn't enough sometimes to shelter seconds long Anne Cooper sorry they might say they're coming back to the store will shoot someone for about three seconds is the highest paid person in itself okay and and but I don't want to Martin chain is that judge rose you've got quite a lot of actors I'm going to be just cynical for a moment because you've got quite a lot of white actors and I noticed Brad pets within the exec producer and credits and he was also an executive producer on wall St twelve years a slave so this seems like a bit of a humanitarian project it pays to support African American film making and to make it by African American history whatever you think of that but I think that's something just to note Bruce and Tim Roth as George Wallace he was the governor of Alabama Alabama he was a democratic government nothing troubling is naked face and rarely I mean the things that he says we're hearing a lot of this rhetoric knife from the far right and the United States so it's quite troubling it is mentioned only dimensions at one time will consume as LBJ mentions at one point that Wallace is quite socialist but is there to stop him from being complete segregation racism so actually there's that moment where I just got your northern president played by any stretch near having %HESITATION quite a bit to re squabbles in the White House with the southern Congress person played by an Englishman both of them doing mathematics and that you've got that shadow of Vietnam over the whole thing %HESITATION hi they use the press hi Martin Luther king manages to orchestrate things to use the press to get attention and siphoned from PH newspaper attention away from the war as well and this is another headache for Lyndon B. Johnson and in the end I mean after quite for Hammond arguments from him thanks I think I'm gonna be on the right side of history he talks about you nineteen eighty five he says to the governor neither of us are going to be here in nineteen eighty five I I want to be remembered as being on the right side of history the next thing is he's appropriating the words from the civil rights movement these will ever come to a point where he finishes with we will overcome as if he just made it up on the spot you've got a lot of that you've got a lot of fight terrorism which is quite cynical then you've got people like the judge played by Martin Sheen who youthful he's reading the letter of the law as it sounds doing what judges tend to do the American film switches go now what we're gonna do this right even though it's gonna take a few days no procedures are going to be slightly observed %HESITATION unobserved in my current case that's how U. S. so making films about judges there's a handful of things that and you're still making art represented almost invariably judges seem to want to okay %HESITATION supported by a lot of other well known names including the rap icon James back into this Michael Papa John first major clout and Michael provision just looks scared with time so you did a good job %HESITATION Wendell pace as has there Williams there's one house that was from the Y. con el the state's person detectives from the war so a big cost and one way I found myself going because representing all these historical figures it's not doing that thing of keeping the list of main characters comfortably small and making sure everyone says each of those names about four five times windows ten minutes I actually find that rainy and transcend because again just to bring up the state the queen relation again here I was really quite happy here the names being repeated because in so many of these kinds of pastries the names fade away it's personalized and one figure heads and that's what happens and hunger with the hunger strikes and then makes presence felt by both the sons and none of the other man he died our names and not from there's a whole other chap to be how to buy them %HESITATION it's got my own feelings about that but it's just tip my diet because it's on my mind because some of the three aces and she's going back to things like twelve years a slave because there's casa she satisfied you've got Martin Luther king who speaks about manta and he's quite middle class barely see if other than his activism life is so different from the lives of the people in Selma and on the bomber it is just making me think a little bit of twelve years a slave for you've got this class conflict within the group of people you know and he mentions that black people he stand by they're just as bad as if he mentions that and one of his rising sermons and the church having this difference initially between the SCLC and what's cool snake which in the student nonviolent coordinating committee have been working in Selma before the SCLC turned up having that conflict is a good way of signaling there's politics all over the place here and it goes from the disagreements that Lyndon B. Johnson house with Monsignor speaking all the way down to disagreements between characters who were within the margin between some of my car one thing that I have to get down now because I didn't make any notes for which is from and you did so I'm gonna get this done before I forget it did you notice just how many of these conversation scenes were shot so the characters were not in the same frame and in the coverage of the two different characters talking the most common set up is that each character would be very close to one edge of the frame looking into the nearest branch as if they were talking with somebody who they were December from was it there's gonna be severing line very close to the face removing them from the person the trying to interact with and most of these conversations were along the lines of we start something some sort of disagreement and then we end up in disagreement but the cinematography wouldn't change they'd still be short in these separate frames and then Moses in the face the quite close up to the fragments that seem to be aware just constantly iterating separation between yeah S. reading of the law the ticket the the earlier conversations between Martin Luther king and his wife Coretta the tensions in their marriage are very clear there's quite a pivotal scene where they've been getting the speeding nasty phone calls I think directed to her saying very horrible things better husbands as a mass shooter an activist but also as an adulterer and playing quite today things like the one that you may prefer you to A. as in times of people having sex the implication being that that's a recording of him with a different woman so our conversation and sheets that's very practically there and %HESITATION separated frames and she for a lot of it as standing in the king dynamite he setting so he's being interrogated and away by her so I got that sense very much and it doesn't let him off the heck the film doesn't idolize him as this great hero this great man hero of history it does actually hold him accountable it does include him in the culpability for deaths and people being hurt but also the treatment of his wife and I go back to his family while he's doing this but somebody has to the displacement echoes through those trials if later ship and the sacrifices that have to be made it there has to be expensive house the sacrifice there has to be about collateral damage even on an emotional level but also he's a preacher I think it's fairly it was a fairly open secret that he did have relationships with other people I don't know very much backed out so we'll leave it at the office but yes she challenges him there's a very clear indication that she knows what he's been up today she doesn't need those phone calls tell her what he's been up today I also find when he's doing speeches at never test centers and on him there's usually a wide angle lens being used so the screen is quite bold G. hunters with a simple point toward bolji basically when the next shop with the same environments often cited angle and with the standard yes the fifty moments yes I find it was happening up when he was giving some sort of speech and he would be center of the frame and it would be curving with him as a focal point about evading create other people sitting behind him setting to the Hispanics things side hand side it behind him to always with him now after having him alone when he's giving speeches never doing that individualizing alpha five eight in one or two shots but yeah yeah maybe just for emphasis not to the extent that you perpetuate and conventional way of filming something like this where you have it's own hero and of course notably the family called Martin Luther king it's called Salma it's up by the time it's a boy those people by their rights it's their fight it's not all about him it's only part of his much larger story the show many of the people who created for people he does that thing in the end credits well before getting to the end credits on the way to them during the speech at the end where you've got a name given on what happened to that person and so the president to go from there if there's a white woman Hey wasn't named I think she has one or two lines of dialogue in the whole thing was named in the and she was named in the dialogue Farley user point site that this woman who had come to help after seeing the horrors on TV of the brutality of the place two words the criteria actually went to the courthouse to try to register to vote in the first place she felt compelled to say something and shows her and cried and said she was killed five hours after that speech driving people boxes so even things like soft acknowledging that there were a life there not every white person state by and that all this happened at doesn't do this thing of what happens and the help of white people there to see if yourself today it just says these people were with us and we remember them and I acknowledge them today as far as common awareness of heard Martin Luther king was on it Dr Martin Luther king junior what's the first I was kind of this king was quite secular one because the most emphasis that's put on him being a believing Christian is that one moment when they're in jail after the initial conflict is happening somewhere outside the courthouse and the one who's in the same cell with him having very whispered conversation and they start quoting a little base of something from the book of Matthew the gospel according to Matthew that's it most of the speeches that you want to take place in churches was gonna cross behind in their speeches have no religious content in the metal and there's even a few that sweat during speeches of from ones that happen outside the church what he'll do better religious content of the act but it's often at the point where people are cheering and chanting and clapping so much that you can hear me saying save lives and restraint areas this is on account of king in which the emphasis is on humanist activism and having listened recently to the speech that he gave in but the only degree castle those numbers just kind enough to having all these other companions are members of the SLC I think some of them wearing that because yes school garb some of them who are also preaches not wearing their TVS will go having these people busy interacting with each other in a way where the membership of religious organization is mostly irrelevant to what they're doing is a very well is very twenty first century way of representing this and I'm not going to tell whether it's a historic accurately representing this because I don't know enough about me I don't know if it's dying plates one offs and I don't know where divinity stones on this either so I don't really want to comment yeah I was wondering even with what there is in the family because there is a pre using of because when I hear that I always feel like the couple used to and this isn't going to send message to you Dennis you're selling yourself short I was just going there but yeah I was going there yeah this one really telling moment which is after the second attempt to cross the bridge when they've actually been next week but then I decided not to go yeah after that there's the SCLC %HESITATION the snake members having that discussion in the views of the church afterwards and none of them mentioned anything to do with the car there we go sign within the next year there's two white preachers CM down from the north to join it themselves concluding that that's what happened to K. so three Hey all this was something to do with divine intervention that's not sent by anyone except for these two I think based on file though say hysterical to priests in Boston so they publicly of Irish descent I'm guessing there in Boston then it's likely it's them he speculated by the divine intervention of wireless you could actually read to start crunching dine fascinating and the silence of says just a moment of quiet reflection and thinking taking pause to think this right because we've seen him already it set him up as the street he just it's like a game of chess where he can see five mesa had he can anticipate what the other players going to date it's very similar and now he's thinking this is too you say they're gonna just satisfactory they're going to close the door after us and we're gonna get stranded and we're going to get paid not ten miles down the road from a gonna have nowhere to go I wanted to purchase was the unitarians this Friday on the second watch synthesis was on multiphase memberships because I have the orthodox either Greek or Russian orthodox guy Joseph was gone eastern orthodox rabbi several nuns and then when it came to that meeting down everyone else not down yet it's clear that some people praying is kept out of the loop when prime at least it wasn't clear that they were it was evidently something members non religiously specific as far as you do that you have a motive to do that now anyway to avoid diminishing and affinity people might fail with this moment but at the same time can have that same moved in at the time he had the motive to appeal to the small but none the less significant non Christian population of African Americans it also did nothing which historical drama tends to do which was that he was going wrong if not done too I was thinking a lot of the standard night that's not wrong just over two hours there's some historical drama school on for nearly three different ones and a lot of kids movies recently yeah I used to the eighty minutes type thing I don't know I think we post a few times because they're watching it at home so we were %HESITATION thing and running a writing things so we probably failed to come more televisual approach task to be fair probably in the Senate map I think I would have been correct and I probably would have seen the time go when I was noticing some really interesting %HESITATION signed adding and sign design there is a lot of asynchronous signs there was one particular point and it just seems like a very small interim moments but there is a part for you you for watching several people getting out of the car walking towards another group well and you could hear voices in the sign track he didn't hear the car doors closed when you saw them close and then it was a bit of a delay before you actually call the shots that was attached to the voices of the people who were actually ordering those voices and those words there was quite a lot of fun happening there was quite a lot of overlap and I think it was part of the idea of the messiness of tying the slippages and history things were happening at once even if they weren't at the same time ever added it is after happening at sametime so you were getting a plan being described and then and Jim and they saying that cross coat with it actually happening with the white preachers getting beaten up you're seeing that cross coat with the membership for the correct going to Martin Luther king what he she having to tell him and that takes it all right that they were beaten to death according to corporate computer at least the one who was the focus of that scene is one of the more attention from the American the other dog two days left and so I did what the phone was in there was it was yeah we're just gonna show not so the character died the same day or this is monsoons marked for a quick breakfast in terms of this king's colleagues informing him about two two days after the which is probably gonna happen as soon as they heard because there are the other are they I find it on clear actually because it seems like their attackers were saying to them you've come here and they were talking about it go going home so it's saying that they weren't yet back in Boston box when was it James was telling came by the incidence than just hearing about it he was referring to it happening in Boston maybe I've picked up from five is unclear on then where their location was when they were taxed to crystalline sama I think they were on purpose for where the king is currently uses the SCLC also work on three there could have been a distance between the mall because it's fast enough backsheet that when they're in sound that they go and stay with a woman I can't remember her name it seems to be a regular thing and then more and more manner and she saw her there since repairing also on Spokane on their knowledge labor of women underneath all of this that's happening service woman probably Boston type of the marches but she was looking after all of these men who were running everything giving ample Oregon feeding them so it seems like they were all because they were in a domestic setting he shaving in the bathroom and a whole group of them go to him what's happened so it seems that they're in that domestic setting where they're all staying together I find that seen it just depends on the player as to where everybody was yes their stock collapse of times throughout the film and of course it's the narrative films so that has to be a reduction and what's happened up there for a long period of time when Malcolm X. was introduced and shuffled off rather quickly yes that was an example of that definitely there's a scene in which he was used to somebody who wants to be part of the Selma activities and he had changed from the mechanics that kept being mentioned by the account as early on as somebody who was Millicent Simmonds for contrast to king's form of protest which capping stressed as being non violent and then suddenly we're having a scene where king is saying one of the summons you've recalling when Kennedy died and then he says and then one Malcolm X. was also recently taken from us and I hear her say about the Max having given a sermon and that same church three weeks before yeah this is very recent so did %HESITATION sort of make it pretty clear that this was a small segment of a much bigger story if you instances in principle by just having people seem so tired my cursory hiring all these buttons and wasn't just came on most about having that text and saying this is what happened to reach these people what's wrong so the the film in being about some of was just about a little bit of more indicated to be a much long story of course and your phones which have historical subjects students tend to do that I find intestine was the firm being G. it is almost by that reminder consummate with the text being typed on the screen and the fat people signed up the typewriter and a half the only Kerrier farms have so much from the X. files because they seem to think that this constant presence of the FBI surveilling everybody logging everything for just a moment I thought alright service techs can keep appearing on screen and it's giving us the events that's also occurring at the time because the FBI has been told to Sputnik people but does it mean that the FBI these records count as an informal version of and right and so I thought I'd seen the film so closely fertilized in these characters and based on screen Texas antagonist stick that project that it kind of reminds me of those epistolary novels where you don't just get losses of one person you get replies as well clearly we get in those numbers yet most of you have a main character and then the replies are with critical of the main character because there was someone to be mean to them some of the person or something and there is clear even though you're getting an account given by antagonists that they don't count as official or unofficial Aratus because we've already had the view of the world the best on talking stick to ready it was one where sting compressing the larger fields of conflicted motives that this phone and I did forms of several points going but we now gonna have another speech where personality who has a motif that conflicts with person B. is gonna have a damn good go at persuading passing by a young person B. is going to look very closely at them and then it's going to do what I want to do anyway that was just instance after instance after instance of that one point where someone actually managed to persuade somebody else to do something and it was one one of the snake members I think it was shown he told the story about having been attacked when he was younger and told it to king who is driving around in the Continental shop with the coverage of the two individual character yeah pretty much right up against the nose and came just listened and listened and seems to be influenced by that speech this is such an American cinema things having characters who are so strong and so rhetorically able they do a speech I never around and goes from being completely opposed to them to be completely in favor of the subject that a little bit mostly did they there's a big speech and nobody of any power these are expensive at least gets convinced there's also the people giving speeches to crowds in the crowds are already one of our situation but that's a different one the nudity that speech that Janice gifts and the car it's Martin Luther king's words that he's reciting he's talking about haven't been beaten and then the next day he makes sure he's out of speech that king is giving do you remember that and came says what did I say and he tells them about his younger self said so K. hang is one over by the words of his younger self so again they're slippages of history I did for myself thinking how much time is just puff since the last scene that we so wondering if what to be expecting any character to pay gray hat in the next scene the thing is absent was the on screen text saying three days later maybe it's a way that we can share in that kind of history that's quite narrative vice actually when the rate these histories so it's quite natural translated stuff and film as well and it's not doing it in a way that is to disorientating thought thought back and forth so I think she ends of the past and the present as well as the past present and future actually because to everybody in the film the reference nineteen eighty five fifths twenty years in the future where is up thirty years in the past for us there's an awareness that history is being created and their authors of history here and then there should revise search of history retelling the stories and highlighting things that were hidden that we're not located and histories even just a little moments like I said the same to more domestic chores or if they on the same play upper of the women often make friends even if they're on the periphery things safe when things get a bit much for Kane and he telephoned the female singer he needs comfort he needs something to give me strength and she sings the gospel song holy objects that was one of those moments with a %HESITATION he's gonna turn out to be a flounder are quite clearly but as you know he just finds out someone who knows to sing to him and she doesn't care and the person she's in bed with all citizens in the cat because this is for because it's their fight today and they're doing what they can for this fight there is quite a nice you alight scene when things start to turn for the better when knights road I certainly can't remember if it's just before the second time they take the March or the third but when I think about a whole day as I mentioned the command of famous people and the singers and performers to the come dine and join in I was thinking as well at the rate it's very quick but it's right at the start and it's a very powerful scene the part where a bomb goes off the four girls are murdered is really quite harrowing but I think it's notable that they were coming down the stairs never talking about normal things that concerned them I think we were talking about it with their hair with the difficulty of working with their hair and talking about it I think each other's mothers and so and so I think her hair just like that I don't think she uses Carter she sued the parking with the type of hair that they've caught I haven't seen a wrinkle in time the man girl character he carries the film one of her concerns as her hair is learning to embrace the texture of hair that she has I just remember when our income times coming out people are starting to see this and she gave it a very nice Twitter was flooded with mothers thanks thank you so much for this because my daughter not loves her frizzy hair my daughters and I love to %HESITATION curry half my daughters and I love the coarse hair there's this embracing and I think this is been a concern of hers I think it's something that smacks of white privilege as we don't think of bites that kind of thing all the products and all of our shops are into our kind of hair you need specialized products or he cancels quick meant to deal with certain kinds of hair everything around us privileges are higher so such a tiny moment and it's an incentive part and it sets up just the normal these little girls are and then it makes the tragedy and the violent subject ass even more extreme that this could be and you know girls talking about their hair and I'm not sure the age of self discovery any particular scene was one of those customers stickier resting ones right at the moment was very calm I'm shocked with slow moving characters very very warmly lit and very simple environment right the moment where that's interrupted by all this debris flying across the shop and the noise of the explosion right the moment the speed of the sound and the speed of the visuals get separated the originals instantly slow down to slow motion but the sound continues on a snowy ice and so we here at the huge off the mouth because it's lots and lots of rubble falling to the ground and it rains take tennis matches yeah nine what was the most unlikely observer and then at the same time what we getting is the scholastic flying of stuff to the %HESITATION and there's dust and it's all quite yellow and you can see bits of lives and that's a fact that you're saying is that someone upside down you know to really abstract I'm not is held for quite some time notably as well because they were coming down a staircase and there's lots of little details and up to date I just the way they were putting their hands on the banisters to turn around the corner status emphasis and the shots the shouts for help back far enough that you can see the curls you can see the stained glass windows the same glass windows there with images of an African American man and woman their faces and it's so rare to have those kinds of visual representations mark this as a black yes possibly a black place of worship it was like to mention that there's a chance yeah it's giving you those details and should he hire date %HESITATION this commission's going efforts even places of worship that are being targeted with that kind of violence they don't care he said the building already insidious things that was said during the north American contract was the only good one is a dead one that's what helped me it's not mentality of hair for planted those bombs and of course these are people who've never held accountable for their actions again we mentioned that former talking to fight the rape of Recy Taylor B. because that same issue from twenty years before that this was what she kept coming up against was that it was white police officers descended from family members of her family white men on the jury all white men at every stage of the way so they could never get any justice and twenty years on this is still the case I don't think is mentioned in the phone but just take a quick look and a bomb is described as having been planted by the KKK and the KKK later mentioned over it but if the endings text but there seems to be a decision not to bring them up it could be the idea of actually not giving them any credence I think it's just that overall sense of white supremacism that's coming to an end you don't have to belong to a man named organization because it shows the last city beach the white preachers to death it shows their faces they're not hiding and they know they're going to get away with that and they call them there's only one thing worse than and Marty so white and March as well they say they associates number still saying this were so famous in terms of racial discrimination in terms of sexual discrimination LGBTQ plus advice and many countries getting traded and stocks seem like today and I think also in terms of racial violence and topping for a range of reasons it just seems there are certain people Hey want the excuse for that kind of behavior because they get away with that under the prevailing climatic I suppose but the rain began at the right time to say this because at the time that this film was me it's Brock Obama was the president of the United States of America tonight America's under Donald Trump white supremacy is rising and that terrifying way another terrifying rates even in the U. K. with the aftermath of the E. U. referendum two years ago there has been at an all time digit amazing of racial abuse use two or three people on a rice effects upon the system here these are fights that are far from over there far from one twenty one to the room we need to show my face you've got a system to make about the extent to which to explore why it is that these Confederate flag waving apartments the back coming up against why it is they think what they think and the George Wallace carried the make up and hair the government mostly by tomorrow also the general bye okay what Timothy articulated a little bit of the thinking that was behind the opposition but it was really quite cursory Sir I got a sense of the firm was going southerners I'm not mistaken this is big that's not the way I would have done it I was at least a first look at why it is people for what they thought because as you know I've told many occasions to explain why someone thinks of the something is not to justify why they do it it's to better understand causality and that's what I'm saying because I'm too can prevent happening again in future so there was quite a few instances in which where these people were they were just these nameless white characters who were just shouting abuse obviously that's exactly what these activists came up against but of course is not producing dramas like this to have shots of them is the wise officials having those discussions are meant that there was some the one where Wallace was talking to the guys seem to have a local state troopers and also someone else who was a local law enforcement that respects the fact that by and large it just seemed to be these people are just bigoted and that's the fact that they become possibly be that anyone could have and should have been convinced of something that they might like to have convinced ourselves what I suggest is that there's something intrinsic about being of a certain ethnicity that means you're just going to be lacking an understanding of people of another ethnicity and the way in which the film went over some white people who understanding was if there's white people were religious I suppose that may be the place where the film was going was making this up too what is culture was that it was going what brings people together of the life blood of this activist movement is the payroll people all face regardless of faith but I think there were because it was an old people to do the clergy there and there's the woman he's highlighted it's hers as she sees it on TV and she's devastated there's no indication either way about her being there because she's religious he seems more like a humanitarian see the warm because it was a very quick brief shots was the one who should sit on the couch with a guy saying on TV and he was consoling her she was devastated to announce the woman Hey you told at the end she was she her being there getting night packs and things and then after speech and she said one viewer told she's not named correct phone number her name is given a natural choose a sauce needed after the state okay are centered to them I think there is a KKK there was there was a handful of instances of people so they were just changing that mark had acted in seem to be at least it wasn't obvious that there was a religious motivation to go first first one things that seem to be employed was that these one people came and joined the move from the north brother VS runs on fifteen February the educated probably middle class I mean they had enough money to build a gap there and give up their time a lot of them are women because women encourage J. mostly you mentioned that the thermal stresses that women in these bolstering roles but also on the March is just north and then leave yeah yeah %HESITATION there everywhere I said yeah that was pointed out by one of the historians and the rape of Recy Taylor as well as that if you watch all the archival footage of both king's speeches women are all the way through Christ our old place they're going to spring creek is about leadership will be men because one of them was a woman is dying mash when he's in the car yeah she's not really highlighted that much but she is there she is a presence we must also just come back to the this is how American films represent judges I want to come back to me this is how American films represent Jagger Hoover's because yeah he was just evil %HESITATION eagles evil tech stuff and I think the guy he plays American members name but he's got one of those familiar faces because he does loads of small roles in TV and I think he cites many evil people in the axe files and programs like that his name is Dylan Baker I was a really nice for our well meaning people he's probably one of those guys who can play really horrible people these but we really love the person he was in planes trains and automobiles it's been a load of tally why do we recognize him all right and spend around today he was in happiness yeah that was yeah his character in the film was performing characters in a wonderful mysteries wasn't concerned that's where I recognize him from actually probably as the sun made me Spiderman two and three yes %HESITATION January third he's never given to get drafted in the exiles he's not since I've sent items and it really sucks that surveillance angle the distrust of everything it's very post McCarthy it feels like that legacy still going on ten years later not to trust anybody wires through the homes phones being tops I was thinking actually because there was a lot of and the sign was again the destructive signed your maybe sing a montage of other things happening but you've got this phone call and the audio you're hearing it as if it's a recording of a phone call rather than hearing either end of the phone call and it was reminding me of the tapes of phone calls planning and Errol Morris's the folder for the documentary thank you Robert McNamara's talking about his involvement in Vietnam and he of course was under and and be Johnson throughout much of our phone calls or send to me Johnson not quite sketchy Spain gosh when today today that %HESITATION that is over ten years ago it is just reminded me about like I was hearing the signed up the recording of a phone call I was seeing as well as the montage is on screen of saying these tapes to cassettes turning on the charm because it is reminding me of top secret recordings that were being managed to avoid a particular I'm thinking about you were seeing M. L. K. his four children and they're all in bubble baths and he's talking to my mother already slate and you're hearing this phone call looks to trying to plan something and saying I want to put it off for a day on to the next Marshall Friday because I've got stuff to do my family and the people who were there and so much and it's still nurses who speaking with a guy from snake that younger yes I know it was ready to go this is the ideal time you can do this I see that might be another instance where MLK was actually persuaded to do some yeah by John there is a possibility %HESITATION I mean he's maybe he sees himself and this useful guide he is behind him he has been inspired by him so again it's he's being in fired by younger version of himself channel three Jonas that septentrionalis Wayne his middle class family night on the poles of the activism and doing what's right for the greater good I wonder if C. B. S. the channel had to get in their place being named rise because it's specifically about channel that's running the violence of the first March when the county says town TV the Quincy B. S. I've been looking up who was that I think it's got a great acting face and I said it was Michael Papa John but it's not Stephen root messing him about it from here he's always got rather thin framed glasses on the radio station going over the mountain actually there's quite a few of these things have changed some of the police work FOR your handsome back very remember these phones Gordan and dodgeball a true underdog story styles %HESITATION no country for old men this is a job being active in everything we can get out all we haven't enough we need to see that and just being a bit of a whimper by cars let me a quiet place and stresses me so much but when we're in the midst of trailers and so hereditary which just promises to be the most terrifying film ever made ever since the new York's assist composer I'm sure get that we can get away with the really rather than a lot of things that she's so close ally H. to what people are talking about issues that concern the country of which none of this is a weak country much but if this is what we can say that and look at the depot and if anybody else ever hear status and hasn't seen Salamat and baseball too it's really worth your time some of them do any sort of assessment of the because your phones well I thought it was really a great thing and I so beautifully additive today reading the scripts but any other thing yeah and and some of the folks who scored just a crane shot at the bridge that focus on the name and the rest Stephen running dying from the letters on the bridge from this is going to be crazy right I can assure I don't know about movement because we're kind of going back and stuff like that what we saw them go four stars out of five or anything like that we do know the last ten to go you should see this film this much you should have this much about going to see this and I think in the case of this I think because it's fun yeah Scorpios may decide that fast enough for people to be on my about page and thanks to some things and they show nothing happened and that should be useful %HESITATION %HESITATION just okay first %HESITATION couple months back shortly after the monthly U. fifteen genius that she didn't make us university have been unveiled a guy who specifically come to visit the university to gaze photo taken with the statute I was American I seventy walking in pasta stature into an entrance into the optional building and he said would you mind taking my photo on this yeah finally getting his phone I just a couple of basic photos portrait and landscape all you have and the first to recognize the statue's face that's the one thing that affected the camera recognize the statue's face because you know how facial recognition technology goes is that mostly focus on a funny face it recognize the face of a statue and not the face of the human the very distinctive famous though and also it's less that she's which he's been delivered even made larger than life because and this is monitoring theory actual life statues we tend to find on K. deserve it layers so little margin life just about prevents it being on campus so this guy did have to put his arm up quite a bit yeah but it's a hundred and okay that's it you're walking through the compass and the eve of the temples and you tell the Senate that he's really there you set the world to rights within the campus there's a statute in my home town which is of a local celebrity and it's actually life size and just as carriers and as we fly off topic okay great exhibition of the north as on of the moment and we can make it work I bought this month by nor supported by greed exhibition I feel like we should be doing stuff today without box open so one interesting I can't really feel compelled to death yeah I poked through the great north museum come on Hancock because we don't give me some simple names anymore last week H. and stave paper %HESITATION for all of the normal exhibits with other exhibits so that you know that you you might look in a cage which school stuff burns in it and it's also got another artifact that's been put in it which is nothing to do with stuff both which is got a little time thank you to all the other plans to mean what it is like that throughout music thing I've learned is and would make some models for kids TV shows my residency including lots of the models used in in the night garden which my kids grow up on and pop thank you a form which we remember fondly scurrying blowing inspecting the same time I was pulled back %HESITATION yeah great personal seems to be a very broad definition of great exhibition and north and I'm sure we'll be discussing yeah like to know how people in Inverness favored by but anyway one other thing yeah it's a little treats its subject that shooting skin tones she can cause substantial frontage sometimes in one film is a logistical knowing that because you have to gauge the particular amount of life to the skin reflects very carefully and gauge the license of the sensitivity of fuel from some more your effective senses on all digital cameras very precisely in order to get the fine gradations of one dog they just across any single person skin ordinarily European skin has been taken as the norm for that which is more effective or flight than skin with more talent and %HESITATION so what I can mean is even phones when you try to represent African American characters any characters recent African origin as being a person may be accidental move of not showing them in the fine details from lights to shelves that you do in the skin of white people but I've given I was totally on top of that yeah she was not for him to any of us forces us a really good point actually this is something she's also tweeted a lot of pain as the research she's done and say photographers and cinematographers who specialize in this kind of work and I will pick some links and show notes saying three point our website at Audi of Asian cultures DOT wordpress dot com nine this on the podcast PH thanks to have three episodes on the PGA onsite PC keep support coming what we do is we gratefully received and if we get even more that means I'll be able to release everything on I change something more accessible for a wider range of people and also at the site and its capital I cast on and updating equipment sharing on social media is also a massive help them you can find us at AZ cultures on Twitter and if you want to get in touch if you want to get involved get a show each on audio visual cultures at G. mail dot com thanks so much and catch the next time
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